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	<title>Comments for UW Computer Security Research and Course Blog</title>
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	<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 14:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Security Review: Quiet Care by George Boyajian</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/02/10/security-review-quiet-care/#comment-5353</link>
		<dc:creator>George Boyajian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 16:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/02/10/security-review-quiet-care/#comment-5353</guid>
		<description>Mr Youngman - 

Please do not take my lack of detail and an encyclopedic response as anything but my wanting to be immediately responsive to a university undertaking.  All I can say, and in wanting to keep our system secure, is that your assumptions about message content and timing are well thought out, but the reality of our messages and the underlying code, prevents such conclusions to be made.  Getting into more detail might be a security risk.  That being said, we understand any group with enough motivation and resources could corrupt any system.

As a former Professor I would like to support the students and the faculty in their enterprise.  But as I have found out in the 12 years I have been in industry after academia, at least in my endeavors, industry knowledge and experience is orders of magnitude deeper than that of nearly all graduate seminar participants.  Our tech team has built some very successful and secure platforms used in the world today including (just to name two) the Instinet trading platform and much of the original Medscape system).

We deal with thousands of lives and emergency interdictions on a daily basis. Now, while no one can ever anticipate every potential attack or security threat, we have taken every measure we can think of, not all of which I would or could prudently discuss on a forum like this.  And we are constantly on the lookout for new threats and counter measures.  Our systems has undergone at least three independent reviews and will continue to undergo such reviews.

I cannot go into, nor should I go into the details of our security, the security vetting by security companies that our system has undergone, nor can I go into the detail of each and every communication, its timing, content, and level of privacy protection in this forum (nor should I for security reasons).

All of the issues that you have pointed to and a host of others that you have not listed have been addressed by the QuietCare technical team.

Student exercises are just that, good thought experiment that exercise their minds, we have to deal with the well being of our clients, the communication with their family members and a host of professional caregivers and our business depends on it.  We know that we do not know everything, therefore we always welcome constructive feedback and criticism and thank you and the students for their ideas.

Please feel free to contact me directly.

George Boyajian george@quietcaresystems.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Youngman - </p>
<p>Please do not take my lack of detail and an encyclopedic response as anything but my wanting to be immediately responsive to a university undertaking.  All I can say, and in wanting to keep our system secure, is that your assumptions about message content and timing are well thought out, but the reality of our messages and the underlying code, prevents such conclusions to be made.  Getting into more detail might be a security risk.  That being said, we understand any group with enough motivation and resources could corrupt any system.</p>
<p>As a former Professor I would like to support the students and the faculty in their enterprise.  But as I have found out in the 12 years I have been in industry after academia, at least in my endeavors, industry knowledge and experience is orders of magnitude deeper than that of nearly all graduate seminar participants.  Our tech team has built some very successful and secure platforms used in the world today including (just to name two) the Instinet trading platform and much of the original Medscape system).</p>
<p>We deal with thousands of lives and emergency interdictions on a daily basis. Now, while no one can ever anticipate every potential attack or security threat, we have taken every measure we can think of, not all of which I would or could prudently discuss on a forum like this.  And we are constantly on the lookout for new threats and counter measures.  Our systems has undergone at least three independent reviews and will continue to undergo such reviews.</p>
<p>I cannot go into, nor should I go into the details of our security, the security vetting by security companies that our system has undergone, nor can I go into the detail of each and every communication, its timing, content, and level of privacy protection in this forum (nor should I for security reasons).</p>
<p>All of the issues that you have pointed to and a host of others that you have not listed have been addressed by the QuietCare technical team.</p>
<p>Student exercises are just that, good thought experiment that exercise their minds, we have to deal with the well being of our clients, the communication with their family members and a host of professional caregivers and our business depends on it.  We know that we do not know everything, therefore we always welcome constructive feedback and criticism and thank you and the students for their ideas.</p>
<p>Please feel free to contact me directly.</p>
<p>George Boyajian <a href="mailto:george@quietcaresystems.com">george@quietcaresystems.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Security Review: Wireless Home Automation Systems by Bovey King</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/17/226/#comment-5323</link>
		<dc:creator>Bovey King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 23:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/17/226/#comment-5323</guid>
		<description>Family system, a computer or a simple LAN, used to be just out-bound connection node, from which family users initialize only out-going requests to download music, upload pictures or just surf web. 

But things changed recently with the embedded system evolution and IP based service expansion. The family system starts to take in-bound connection to handle requests. Typical application for such in-bound connection can be found in P2P games, VIOP and IP video surveillance.

Take IP video surveillance as example, a web server running in an embedded device and server the in-coming request for real time video, snapshot, recorded images or administration tasks. Service is supposed to be more vulnerable than non service application because it will open more ports and take in information from outside, which can be malicious.

An embedded device running open service such as ftp, web deployed in family environment can impose great security threat on regular family users. The reasons can be briefly summed as following:

1.	Family system is the least protected end point in the WWWW world. No professional system admin, no commercial grade firewall, no password and security policy.
2.	Family users are regulars users without much knowledge how to protect their network, and how to detect the attack.
3.	Most services running in embedded system are implemented loosely  without security in the first place
4.	For an embedded system, the end to end connection channel protection is impossible. The standard SSL just does not work for embedded system, the reason for that is no one won’t pay and update certificate after the device is shipped.

No matter how an IP camera brag its security feature, it can be very easily to be tampered if somebody really want to, because if there is no protection in the whole transportation channel, the device is regarded no protection. Same for other embedded device with open services running.

However, the security flaw for embedded is not really this significant as it sounds. The reason is the limited ability for an embedded system, because a tampered embedded system won’t be harmful as a desktop system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Family system, a computer or a simple LAN, used to be just out-bound connection node, from which family users initialize only out-going requests to download music, upload pictures or just surf web. </p>
<p>But things changed recently with the embedded system evolution and IP based service expansion. The family system starts to take in-bound connection to handle requests. Typical application for such in-bound connection can be found in P2P games, VIOP and IP video surveillance.</p>
<p>Take IP video surveillance as example, a web server running in an embedded device and server the in-coming request for real time video, snapshot, recorded images or administration tasks. Service is supposed to be more vulnerable than non service application because it will open more ports and take in information from outside, which can be malicious.</p>
<p>An embedded device running open service such as ftp, web deployed in family environment can impose great security threat on regular family users. The reasons can be briefly summed as following:</p>
<p>1.	Family system is the least protected end point in the WWWW world. No professional system admin, no commercial grade firewall, no password and security policy.<br />
2.	Family users are regulars users without much knowledge how to protect their network, and how to detect the attack.<br />
3.	Most services running in embedded system are implemented loosely  without security in the first place<br />
4.	For an embedded system, the end to end connection channel protection is impossible. The standard SSL just does not work for embedded system, the reason for that is no one won’t pay and update certificate after the device is shipped.</p>
<p>No matter how an IP camera brag its security feature, it can be very easily to be tampered if somebody really want to, because if there is no protection in the whole transportation channel, the device is regarded no protection. Same for other embedded device with open services running.</p>
<p>However, the security flaw for embedded is not really this significant as it sounds. The reason is the limited ability for an embedded system, because a tampered embedded system won’t be harmful as a desktop system.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Security Review: Quiet Care by Wedding Ablum Designer</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/02/10/security-review-quiet-care/#comment-5319</link>
		<dc:creator>Wedding Ablum Designer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 02:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/02/10/security-review-quiet-care/#comment-5319</guid>
		<description>I'm concerned about the privacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m concerned about the privacy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Security Review: &#8220;Smart Guns&#8221; by Guy B. Meredith</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/16/security-review-smart-guns/#comment-5316</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy B. Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 03:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/16/security-review-smart-guns/#comment-5316</guid>
		<description>All smart mechanism using some sort of biometrics or other electronic recognition can be circumvented.  

At some point the electronics are actuating a mechanical device to arm the firearm.  This device can be actuated by wiring around the 'brains' and directly to the actuator.  Alternatively, the actuator can be mechanically jimmied.

These devices may prevent grabs, but are useless if the criminal or inquisitive child has more than a few minutes to play with the firearm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All smart mechanism using some sort of biometrics or other electronic recognition can be circumvented.  </p>
<p>At some point the electronics are actuating a mechanical device to arm the firearm.  This device can be actuated by wiring around the &#8216;brains&#8217; and directly to the actuator.  Alternatively, the actuator can be mechanically jimmied.</p>
<p>These devices may prevent grabs, but are useless if the criminal or inquisitive child has more than a few minutes to play with the firearm.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Security Review: Apple&#8217;s Time Capsule by Alvin</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/01/18/security-review-apples-time-capsule/#comment-5300</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/01/18/security-review-apples-time-capsule/#comment-5300</guid>
		<description>I think this is the wireless hard drive and it already has in the market. But I would not trust this Cutter, because leaked information can do very expensive. I think that this novelty is too unreliable and doomed to failure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is the wireless hard drive and it already has in the market. But I would not trust this Cutter, because leaked information can do very expensive. I think that this novelty is too unreliable and doomed to failure.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Phalanx attains Slashdot fame! by Colin Dixon</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/04/22/phalanx-attains-slashdot-fame/#comment-5290</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/04/22/phalanx-attains-slashdot-fame/#comment-5290</guid>
		<description>So, the article plays fun with the idea of using a "good botnet" which was a term I used, but in actuality the good botnet I was referring to is one that's made up of nodes from a CDN infrastructure like Akamai.

I'm suggesting we build a good botnet by buying the machines, not steal one through nefarious means.

--Colin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, the article plays fun with the idea of using a &#8220;good botnet&#8221; which was a term I used, but in actuality the good botnet I was referring to is one that&#8217;s made up of nodes from a CDN infrastructure like Akamai.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m suggesting we build a good botnet by buying the machines, not steal one through nefarious means.</p>
<p>&#8211;Colin</p>
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		<title>Comment on Security Review: Traffic Lights by Michael Loftis</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/02/03/security-review-traffic-lights/#comment-5288</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Loftis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/02/03/security-review-traffic-lights/#comment-5288</guid>
		<description>Traffic lights commonly include an independent sort of fail-safe circuit called an "opposing green" detector.  If this circuit (sometimes it's mechanical) sees greens go on that would cause opposing traffic to be directed at eachother, it will short the system to some form of flashing red or red/yellow or flashing yellow until the DOT gets out to the box to examine the fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Traffic lights commonly include an independent sort of fail-safe circuit called an &#8220;opposing green&#8221; detector.  If this circuit (sometimes it&#8217;s mechanical) sees greens go on that would cause opposing traffic to be directed at eachother, it will short the system to some form of flashing red or red/yellow or flashing yellow until the DOT gets out to the box to examine the fault.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ethics&#8230;? by SteveC</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/17/ethics/#comment-5237</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/17/ethics/#comment-5237</guid>
		<description>Nate, Robert is talking about what is. You are talking about what ought to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate, Robert is talking about what is. You are talking about what ought to be.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Steam: The Content Distribution Platform for Games by Jason Smith</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/16/steam-the-content-distribution-platform-for-games/#comment-5221</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/16/steam-the-content-distribution-platform-for-games/#comment-5221</guid>
		<description>Your machine's MAC address is not transmitted over the internet. MAC is a layer 2 protocol, and is only handled by machines on the same physical network as your machine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your machine&#8217;s MAC address is not transmitted over the internet. MAC is a layer 2 protocol, and is only handled by machines on the same physical network as your machine.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The new sliding door at the CSE building by kinme</title>
		<link>http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/01/the-new-sliding-door-at-the-cse-building/#comment-5171</link>
		<dc:creator>kinme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubist.cs.washington.edu/Security/2008/03/01/the-new-sliding-door-at-the-cse-building/#comment-5171</guid>
		<description>Schneier had a post about this a while back...scary how much people trust technology like this to, in many cases, protect so much!  My work employs these on exterior doors and all interior doors, which means trivial access any time for someone smart.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/12/defeating_rfids.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Schneier had a post about this a while back&#8230;scary how much people trust technology like this to, in many cases, protect so much!  My work employs these on exterior doors and all interior doors, which means trivial access any time for someone smart.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/12/defeating_rfids.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/12/defeating_rfids.html</a></p>
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